Natascha Moy : Podcast Producer and Airbnb Queen

“With all of these movements to bring darkness into light. I think having a voice, being able to express yourself is more important than ever, ever before.”

Intro

Hello, everyone. It’s Bernadette back with another episode of She Renovates. And today I have, I know I say this just about every week, but it’s because I have so many amazing guests. But today’s guest is extra, extra special. And the reason she is extra, extra special is because Natascha was my podcast teacher.

Bernadette Janson: Now the She Renovates podcast has been an incredible success. So, Natascha will share this with you too. What we’re currently doing, we’ve been going for just a bit over a year and we’re currently doing around 700 downloads a week. She’s incredible and I know that quite a few, in fact, two of our students have started their own podcast. So I know that there are people in our community who would like to start a podcast. And also so there’s a lot of crossovers because Natascha also has a history of a property that’s very typical to our themes. And so I invited Natascha on for us to just really explore it. So welcome, Natasha Moy. Would you start by giving everyone a bit of a rundown of who you are and what you do?

Natascha Moy: Thank you. I’m so excited to be here, Bernadette because these are the two things that I completely love. I’m totally and utterly passionate about podcasting and giving people a voice. It excites me. And having a student actually successfully hosting a podcast with 700 downloads a week just makes me feel massively proud. But the best part about that is that I also have an Airbnb and have done a couple of renovations and some flips along the way as well. So they’re my two loves – speaking and beautiful things. So I’m very, very, very flattered that I am on your podcast. And this is the first podcast I have ever been a guest on.

Bernadette Janson: Well, that’s disgraceful, Natascha.

Natascha Moy: Actually, I said I’ve interviewed two thousand people, so I am the Chair of Eastside Radio in Paddington in Sydney. And as the chair, I’ve been there for 11 years. I started with a food show which was live. And I’ve interviewed all the top chefs, certainly all the ones from Melbourne and a lot from Sydney as well. And I’ve also interviewed a whole lot of incredible, remarkable people for my dialogue podcast that is exceptional and amazing business people. And I’ve recently interviewed you, which I think is quite interesting. So we’re having, it’s a mutual appreciation society, really.

Bernadette Janson: We are. And yes, it’s got a very active membership.

Natascha Moy: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So that’s my background. My background is in broadcasting, I have a journalism degree. And I believe in people expressing themselves. And I think you can express yourselves through creativity and through your voice. More than ever now with Covid, with Black Lives Matter, with the MeToo movement, with all of these movements to bring darkness into the light I think having a voice, being able to express yourself is more important than ever, ever before

Bernadette Janson: It definitely is. And I think to be the host of the successful podcast, it’s a real privilege because I’m not going to overestimate the impact of our little She Renovates. But you do have the opportunity to impact lives. Would you agree with that?

Natascha Moy: Totally. I think the thing is what I’ve noticed with the people that I’ve interviewed and I’ve interviewed some very famous people and some very brilliant business people, some incredible founders of organisations. You know, I’ve interviewed people like Neil Whitaker, who is a judge on The Block, compared why he’s on television, Lyndy Malone, who is a media food media person. I interviewed people in business who make $300M a year and who came over to Australia as immigrants. So I’ve seen that whole journey. And I’ve realised that when you give someone a voice, I think what you create is an opportunity for them to work through some of their own challenges. It’s an interesting thing when you say something out loud, whether it’s painful or whether it’s joyful, it instantly creates its own energy. I think pain is always halved when you express it verbally and to an audience. And I think joy is increased by a whole 100%. So when you share joy, you feel happier, when you feel sadness, when you express sadness, I think it diminishes your sadness when you’re saying it out loud. And when you talk about yourself as an expert, it really creates power for you as a business person.

Bernadette Janson: Yes, that’s something that I sometimes feel quite uncomfortable about. I don’t think that’s unusual, but yes, it does give us an opportunity to make life better for others. Which is really what we’re about, isn’t it?

Natascha Moy: Well, you’re doing that at the moment. I mean, when I interviewed you, it was really interesting because you’re giving women the opportunity, specifically women, the opportunity to actually build wealth and create some financial success. And when I interviewed you on the Living Out Loud podcast, it was a lot about that in creating financial stability, financial literacy for women. How do you actually survive as a single woman or as a single mom? I was married and, you know, got separated when my son was two and a half, and he’s now fifteen. I’ve been a single mom for a really long time. And when I bought my now Airbnb and I renovated it, it changed my entire financial outlook. It absolutely, I mean it. Mine is very successful. It’s a studio, I make about what I did before Covid about $5.5K to $6.5K a month out of my studio. And it was positively geared and I actually lived off parts of that income. I half paid the mortgage and half bought my food. I am one of those unlucky women who didn’t get a ex-husband who wants to pay any money. So I don’t get any income support from my ex-husband at all, not for anything. So I put my son through school and paid for his golf lessons and his tennis lessons. And without the financial support of my Airbnb, I would not be able to do it.

Bernadette Janson: Yes, it’s a very powerful strategy. And that’s really heartwarming to hear a story like that, that a tiny little studio can have that much impact on your life.

Natascha Moy: It’s absolutely massive. And in fact, I’m trying to buy another one at the moment in the same building because I took what was a seriously, ugly, ugly studio. It was 40 years old, one of the most hideous spaces I’ve ever seen. And I didn’t spend enormous amounts of money. I did a beautiful, cool kitchen, a nice little bathroom, did all white on white on white. And literally, it was full from the day I put it up and it was an easy thing. I didn’t find it difficult to do, it wasn’t for me. I love the creative process. And being able to actually do that made me feel really empowered.

Bernadette Janson: Yes, yes. And can I just drill down a bit more there? So basically, how big is the studio?

Natascha Moy: It’s a 49 square meter and studio 40 interior. It had a, it was literally being run, used almost as a hotel room. It had an ugly, you know, the balcony, it was just hideous. It was truly the ugliest room I’ve ever seen. And I brought in a team. I didn’t do as well on that side as I could have. I’m practised, I’m not as organised as I would have liked to have been. It was also post a big house renovation that I’d done in Darlinghurst. I went to an interior designer, a commercial interior designer, and I said, “Can you?” I had to draw a plan for the strata. So she said to me, “What do you want?” And I said, “I wanted to be really groovy. I want an exposed wall and I want this and I want that.” And she just stopped me right there and she said “No”. She said, “People who want to stay in Airbnb want to stay in a clean space. They want to see a white room. They want to see everything that is clean.” And so, what happened was she did my drawings and we literally layered. I did a white floor, white bed. I bought all my furniture and everything from IKEA, Bunnings and Kmart.

Bernadette Janson: Well done.

Natascha Moy: I do not, I will not spend money. My beautiful lights are from Bunnings. My kitchen is a stainless kitchen from IKEA kitchen. And I had one or two custom things made, so I did thick custom benchtop in my kitchen. There was really beautiful wood and in the bathroom the same. And the bathroom, I put no cabinets. I just put shelving beautiful wooden shelves everywhere. So, look, bigger cutting less money. And I did one nice light.

Bernadette Janson: Beautiful. Beautiful. And so you’ve got a bit of a theory around a colour.

Natascha Moy : I do have a theory around colour. Actually, that friend of mine who ‘s brilliant and she does some amazing, some amazing commercial spaces in retail. She said to me, I said to her, “You know, it’s interesting. A lot of my international guests are from China and Korea, I have a lot of amazing Asian clients.” And I said, “Why is that?” And my friend who’s in the same building had quite a lot of her clientele coming from India. And she said to me, “People will respond to colour.” She said, “Korea and China, they used to like the white on white”, she said “In Korea, you’ll find the lights are almost fluorescent and so white” she said that will automatically appeal to something they’re comfortable with. My friend upstairs, she has some quite puppy acid colours, like a purple and a green. And Indian communities are used to beautiful colour. They’re used to living with beautiful colour. And so they migrate to her space.

Bernadette Janson: It’s so incredible, isn’t it? Yeah.

Natascha Moy: It’s amazing. The psychology behind colour is massive.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. And I think that one of the things that’s really key about an Airbnb is it must be immaculately clean, particularly for an Asian market. And I think a white colour scheme certainly, I guess, suggests that it’s clean. So it tells that story. So, of course, you have to back that up with reality when they turn up but it’s a good way of getting that message across. Would you agree?

Natascha Moy: Yeah, I use a lot of like, my linen is all white, so I accent with neutral colours. I accent with grey. It tends to be the colour that I’ll go to because it’s not a cold grey but a warm grey. So my throws on the bed are grey. I’ve got a grey sofa, a sofa bed but I accent, I put through a white soft fluffy throw over the sofa. I’ve got a little bit of sequence in there which I got from Kmart. And then not too many bits and pieces. So my art on my walls is white on white. I’ve got like a pony, it’s a white pony and a white frame and above the bed. I think I’ve got a metal artwork which is just fish. And in my kitchen is warm. My kitchen’s got an aqua subway tile behind it, all the way to the ceiling and it’s got one shelf in it on the back wall, which is the same custom wood. And on there are all my cups and sauces and stuff. But I also have a belief that people like symmetry. I don’t know if you agree with me, but symmetry is really important and balance.

Bernadette Janson: It is. I do agree with you. It’s very pleasing to the eye.

Natascha Moy:  Very much. So, I always say to the cleaner people, when you clean the top and everything, make sure that it’s always pointing down, that everything’s shiff- you know, so all the containers in the kitchen are all in the same direction. The cup handles are all in the same direction. Everything is sort of seamlessly done so that it all looks, it’s just balanced and makes you feel peaceful.

Bernadette Janson: It does. And I think the other side of that is, it looks thoughtful.

Natascha Moy: Exactly.

Bernadette Janson: Yeah. And that’s what a guest is looking for. They’re looking for a home where someone has considered their stay and you know and they feel loved in that environment.

Natascha Moy:  Absolutely. I mean, I always, you know, I always leave, I don’t leave a huge amount of goodies, but I always leave a beautiful box of chocolates for them so that there’s something that they have that little bits and pieces. And I make sure that everyone’s really well aware of what goes on. The linen is always nice, there’s always thank you products, the hand wash and the shampoos and everything are organic. And then that just shows, it’s certain that those little touches and also things like how you roll your towels, it’s just like they’re really, it’s really important how you fold towels and stack them.

Bernadette Janson: It is, it is. It suggests that you’ve got some style and that you’re just not the- I have had some problems with some of our cleaners. Yes. You really need to spell out every aspect of the presentation.

Natascha Moy: What I do with my cleaner is, I actually have a book where I take all the photographs of every single thing, exactly how I do everything, where it needs to be put and I put all the big photographs, A4 into the flip folder for them. And then I hand that to them. And I said, this is how it needs to look when you’re finished. And then I make them take photographs and send it at the end.

Bernadette Janson: Beautiful.

Natascha Moy: So everything is done exactly like I would want to be done.

Bernadette Janson: Fantastic. And do you manage the communication or do you outsource that as well?

Natascha Moy: I’ve been managing the communication. I have fun during Covid. The one thing I’ve really been quite happy about is not ever having to clean and not actually having to do as much. I would consider an Airbnb manager going forward, especially if I had more than one. I think you have to answer really quickly.

Bernadette Janson: You do. Yeah.

Natascha Moy: Yeah. People really want you to answer quickly. And you have to also be- one of my friends who does it, she’s very picky about her guests. She’s quite sort of particular about their nationality sometimes. And I keep saying, you know, you have to be open to everyone and everything. If you are part of the Airbnb community, you cannot profile anybody. You’re not allowed to. It’s not part of the journey. It has to be something that is just you have to be part of a loving community and you have to do it with love.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. And it’s funny, we’ve got a house in western Sydney which has been on Airbnb for quite a few years. And we get lots of like the Olympic teams prior to the Olympics will train in the water sport venues in Penrith and they’ll stay at our house because it’s got a brand-new flat and it can accommodate nine people. And I had this request from a school teacher from Malaysia with six school children. And I have to say, I took a deep breath and then I thought, you know what? No, I can’t. I’m not going to discriminate. I’m going to treat them like everyone else. And I was rewarded because they left the home absolutely perfectly. So there were no issues at all.

Natascha Moy: You never know where you’re going to get it. I have had one really, really terrible incident in the three years that I’ve hosted. I did, and it was against my better judgement. My radar was screaming at me. Everything was telling me that I was making a terrible, terrible mistake and I still went through with it. And unfortunately, they were junkies and even though it was a very expensive stay, it was a thousand stay. And when I went in, they had gone to town, to the point where they had stolen my knives. They stole my knives.

I went to the police and laid a complaint about it. And it was, I was devastated by it, but it taught me a lesson, and the lesson that it taught me was that, when your radar is telling you that there is a massive problem, generally there is. And it’s not anything to do with where people come from or their ages, it’s to do with the way they communicate with you. If the communication is odd, if they don’t follow through the way other people normally follow through, then you have to make sure that you do a good call. And I did a particularly poor call and I suffered the consequences. I’ve never made the same mistake again.

Bernadette Janson: So, Natascha, did they come through Airbnb?

Natascha Moy: Yeah, they came through Airbnb, under a false profile. So, it was booked under supposedly her aunt. And then she arrived and said that she was waiting for her aunt and she was going to let in. And they did ice in the apartment. They smoked, they did, there was bags everywhere, they chopped all their drugs on my tables. And it was I mean, I was quite devastated. I remember feeling quite sort of violated by the process. But then at the end, I looked and I thought, well, you’re going to have one out of the hundreds that I’ve had that have been phenomenal. Just going to roll with the punches.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. Yeah, that’s actually unusual because most, oh, well, any bad experience that I’ve ever had to come through Booking.com.

Natascha Moy: Yes, I have tried them a few times. I’ve used Booking.com a few times but I always felt terribly insecure because it doesn’t have the same way of handling guests. So it’s definitely something that I mean, if I could just get everyone through Airbnb, I would be so happy.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. Yes, because Airbnb has much more screening process.

Natascha Moy : They do. I do find also sometimes, though, with the hosting side of it, quite challenging because it’s very, very there’s a lot of pressure on hosts and people’s expectations are very, very, very high. You know, they expect a 5-star hotel at the price of a motel, and it’s difficult sometimes to rise. You know, I had one couple who came from overseas and she left me a note and she said we would have preferred white towels. We would have preferred a juicer. We would have preferred a coffee maker, like this.

Bernadette Janson: Oh my gosh.

Natascha Moy: I was heartbroken because I’ve tried so hard. And, you know, I had the same for Mardi Gras this year, had two American boys come over and I left beautiful Mardi Gras things in the apartment for them and they were very challenging. But it’s a business and you’re running a business. And if you look at it, if you look at it as “this is my home and you’re invading my home” you’ll never survive. You’ll never survive Airbnb. You have to push it far away from yourself and go, “that’s a business.”

Bernadette Janson: Exactly, you have to take the emotion out of it.

Natascha Moy: Totally.

Bernadette Janson: I have to tell you a funny story. We had a house that we had renovated more waiting for the market to pick up and just around the corner from where I live. And we had this lady who is originally from the U.S. but had been living in Australia. Her name was Crystal. In the booklet, in the house, I always write, you know, you may see some bugs because this is Australia. And when you have a lot of overseas visitors, they freak out about it. I think, no, I said you may see, you may see a cockroach but don’t worry about it unless you see two or three. That unfortunately the house is treated regularly for it, but we still see the odd one and it’s just a fact of life. I’ve got this massive diatribe from her about you say it’s no biggie, it absolutely is biggie. And gave me this survey about how germ-ridden cockroaches are and blah, blah, blah. And I wrote back and I said to her, “Look, if you’re concerned about it, you’d be better to stay in a hotel.” And she came back and said, “you sure? Can you guarantee that there won’t be cockroaches in hotels?” Anyhow, and like she booked late, the rate was lower. It was cheap. My theory is, when it’s cheap, you get cheap.

Natascha Moy: Absolutely. Like the quality of the guest loads with the price, with the price point.

Bernadette Janson: It does. And anyhow, while she was there, she had an argument with her husband and he left and she had to stay longer. And she couldn’t because the house was booked. I also have another Airbnb at home and some of my team had actually said to her, “Maybe Bernadette’s got a vacancy”. And when I spoke to her, she said “Oh, Judy said that I might be able to stay in your Airbnb”. I said, “I don’t think that’ll be suitable” I just do not want this woman for another few days. And she said, “Why not?” and I said, “Because there are spiders.” She said, “Actually, I really like spiders.”

Natascha Moy: Oh, my goodness.

Bernadette Janson: Yes. Very irrational.

Natascha Moy: I’ve had the cockroach issue as well. I’ve had people write back and say, “It’s just the most beautiful stay but we did find a cockroach”. And then I write back and I say, “In Australia, the cockroaches fly. So, chances are it probably flew in from the street outside. It’s not living there.” One cockroach. And Australia is known for bugs. So if you’re coming here, I mean, you’re just gonna have to get on with that, unfortunately.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. And that’s why I write it in the book. In the menu. Because I want to warn them so that when it happens and they have the choice to book somewhere else, if they’re concerned about it and someone else can put up with the plan.

Natascha Moy: Absolutely.

Bernadette Janson: Yeah. So, I’m impressed by your entrepreneurialism. So, once you got your own Airbnb cranking, you chose to help others get Airbnb set up.

Natascha Moy: I’ve actually done quite a few. I’ve done quite a few interiors. And fascinating thing was that the beautiful friend of mine who actually did my drawings for my commercial, the drawings. She came to me one day, it was such a beautiful story. Actually, she came to me one day and she said, “Listen, I live in Newtown, we’ve turned our beautiful cottage into an Airbnb. Can you come and just try it out for the night and let me know?.”

So I went to her house and beautiful home and the cottage at the back was lovely. And she took me inside and she said to me, she said, “Right. She said, the bed has to stay there. And this tallboy has to stay here and this has to be over here.” She said, “but, you know, tell me what else you want and what else you think we should do.” And I looked around the space and went into the kitchen and she said, “well, you know, we’ve got some of our old plates in hand, some of our knives and forks.” I said, “All right.” And I was spending the night. So, I went inside and I had a glass of wine. And then I had another glass of wine. And at the end of the second glass, one full right now is the moment. And I’m not known for my filter. So, I looked at her and I said to her, “Darling, I have to share something with you.” And I was very quiet and she looked at me, she goes, “It’s shit, isn’t it?” I said, “It’s so shit.” She goes, “Why?” I said, “Because if you don’t want to live with those things, why do you expect someone wants to pay you to live with those things?” I said “Everything that you’ve shown me is wrong.” So she said, “Okay, what am I supposed to do?”, so I wrote her a list of things that she needed and how she needed to rearrange it. Everything was, as I said, from IKEA and Kmart, because I don’t believe in spending a lot of money. And I think you need to buy things you can replace.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. Yeah.

Natascha Moy: Really important. And off they went the following day, her and her husband. And she phones me from the car and she said, “Where did you say we need to get that carpet from?” She said, “because my husband said that I’m not allowed to get anything that’s not on the list. I’m not allowed to choose anything for myself. It has to be what you told us.” Anyway. They did it. And she has been full ever since, literally ever since. So that when, you know, that was such a success story and I loved it, I said “You did my drawings, why would you want me?” She said, “I can’t style.” she said, “I don’t know how to style. It’s not in my nature.” She said, “I can draw a space.” But I love the styling. It’s how you take an ugly space and warm it up with things, you know, with just a little bit of paint and just some clever touches, clever colour combinations. You can transform anything.

Bernadette: Exactly. And I think that’s the other appeal with their Airbnb. It is an outlet for that creativity because many of us talking about women and, you know, I’m being quite sexist, but I’m allowed to because it’s my show.

Natascha Moy: Absolutely.

Bernadette Janson:  I just really revel in that process of taking something that’s really old and daggy and turning it into something stunningly beautiful.

Natascha Moy: Absolutely. And it’s quite funny. You know, I’ve seen your space just through the screen because we’ve had some interactions and so much of your style that you have, you know, I love I would take so much of your texture, so much of what you’ve got in your home. And I would put that into another space just the way you’ve done your wash on your walls, your artwork, which is quite kind of stark against the whites and dark. You really play with the colour and those monochrome is really, really well. You’ve got that exquisite light at your dining area. Magnificent. It just, you know, and it’s nice. I mean, you teach renovating and so to be able to actually learn from someone who has a beautiful home and who actually knows what they’re doing, I think that’s really nice. I would happily go into a deal with you. I reckon it would be. You’ve got some beautiful, beautiful taste.

Bernadette Janson: Oh, thank you. Natascha, that’s lovely. So, I’m feeling quite – my chest is getting bigger as we speak.

Natascha Moy: No, I think you want to learn. I teach podcasting; you want to know that you’re learning from someone who knows what they’re doing and who’s got experience. You teach renovating. Well, even when I had a little conversation with you for my Living Out Loud or a long conversation, I realised there’s a couple of things. The sweet spot. You don’t think about that sweet spot because I think you can get very emotional about the renovating journey. And then all of a sudden, you’ve spent too much money. You’re in love with the process and not the outcome. And I’m sure so many people must make those mistakes.

Bernadette Janson: Absolutely. Yes. And I did, too, for a long time.

Natascha Moy: I think that would be something that would be really interesting to kind of learn. And the other ones that I’ve done for other people, it’s been interesting. A lot of friends have come to me and said, “Can you help me?” and then I’ve sort of taken the ball. So, I’ve helped them with the basics and then taken the ball and kind of done it themselves. And I’ve said to them, “I don’t think that’s a good idea.” And they haven’t listened. And they’ve often then had to come back and say, “you were right.” I don’t know how you feel but please don’t accent with red and please don’t accent with lime green. They’re the most shocking colours. I’ve seen people do it all the time, it is hideous. If you’re desperate, use an ochre, you know, or a grey or if you’re desperate, go black. Please don’t use red and don’t use green.

Bernadette Janson: Well, yeah, exactly. And the other thing is you need to be really in tune with what the general population wants. It needs to have broad appeal. My guess is the word.

Natascha Moy: Yeah. I’ve seen people flip and do stuff where they have a very particular style and they’ve got good money for those places. But you have to really know how to put something together cheaply and extraordinary to make it really stand out. Otherwise, I think you’ve got to go for that broad appeal.

Bernadette Janson: Yeah, actually, I do have a friend who has been on the podcast a couple of times. She’s a prolific flipper. She and her husband and every reno, she goes to Bali and buys a container full of furniture. And her renos are absolutely divine. And the buyer often buys the furniture as well but she does have a very particular style that happens to suit her area. Now, I couldn’t do that style in my area because it’s quite over the top Balinese holiday type. And you’ve got to sort of appeal to market.

Natascha Moy: Well, I think that’s true. I mean, you’ve got to look at the houses in the area that you’re in. I live in the Southern Highlands and Art Harrods, it’s sort of that New England style home, balconies and that kind of more colonial feel. And when people come to buy here, they’re looking for that more sort of English country feeling. So to put something very urban in this environment is not really going to work particularly well. But in Sydney, you can go for that exposed brick urban monochrome kind of look. And it would probably float.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. Is it true that you actually import some home?

Natascha Moy: I did for a while. I did. I decided that I thought I wanted to. I’m obviously for my accent, I’m originally South African. And I really love African home ways and, you know, beautiful things that are handmade. I find the creativity in countries where there is more desperation is quite spectacular. And I really wanted to support the South African sort of craftsmen. And I went and I started a place out here in the Highlands. But unfortunately, the actual shipping from South Africa, I think in Zone 7 and for every dollar you spend on products, you might be buying it on the street, but by the time you shipped it in, it’s a $200 exercise and then you’re having to sell it for $400. And nobody wants to buy a $400 beaded owl. I found out the hard way. So I did, I did love the idea of it. And then I just thought, you know, maybe retail is not my gag. You’ve got to try. You got to give it all a go, you know.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. Yeah. And I think that retail is a tough gig at any time. You know, it’s a very specific skill. And like you look at even big companies like David Jones, they can’t make it work.

Natascha Moy: I worked for a friend of mine down here. I had a clothing store for a while, lovely clothing store. And I just did for fun. I thought I’d get out and do something over the weekends when my son was with his father. I think after about the fourth month, I phoned her one day and I said to her, “I can’t do this anymore.” I said “I had become so depressed.” I said, “it is so slow.” It is just such a difficult job to actually do. You don’t realise what’s sitting in a shop all day feels like. And sometimes nobody comes in or one person comes in and they’re not particularly nice to you. I mean, I want to chat to everyone. I was so miserable and I thought, wow, I take my hats off to people who can make this work.

Bernadette Janson: Oh, me too. Yeah, it is. I like action so I couldn’t think of anything worse than sitting in the store all day waiting for customers to come in.

Natascha Moy: Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, that was not one of my, you know, I’ve had a few interesting sort of failures along the way. I think, you know, successes are, you never have success without a failure. And that must go on for one.

Bernadette Janson: You absolutely do not. And was it, Henry Ford, he said something about restarting, but this time more intelligently. If you learn from your failures, they’re definitely the stepping stone to success. And that’s really how you have to look at them.

Natascha Moy: I went. I did the interviews that I’ve done with, you know, these remarkable people, was really about their lives. And it was fascinating to listen to people’s journeys. You know, people who had come in and they’d be pitched at me as this person’s very, very successful. They’re the CEO of a tough brand. This person’s TV personality. And, you know, they would walk into the studio and they would sit down and start telling me their stories. And, you know, people would come up with in the beginning, I’d say to them, “How was your childhood? What was it like?” And they’d say, “I was abused as a child.” And you’d look at them and you go, “Oh, wow.” And somebody would come in sit down and say, “well, I actually am a recovering alcoholic.” Or, you know, “I came as an immigrant. I was on a boat.”, “My first wife did this” or “I was married and failed”. The number of absolutely heartbreaking stories that I heard but also, the resilience that each one of these people had was quite extraordinary, the way they overcame failure and overcame human suffering to become remarkable. And even at that point of them being pitched to me or me finding them as remarkable people, they were still dealing with challenges that were part of everyday life. So, they may have been perceived as successful in one area but in another area they were still overcoming a struggle. And so I would always ask them what the X Factor was. You know, what makes you get up the next morning? What makes you get up and keep going? And the same story came up. It was just this incredible human resilience that it could be better. It could be. It could be better. And that just kept them going. And so often it was obviously that much better. But, you know, famous people who would say to me, “I wake up every morning and I put on a suit of armour because I am not that confident. And even though the world thinks I am. I walk outside and I am scared.”

Bernadette Janson: That’s so true. And that’s certainly something that we deal with. It’s in our community. And I do, everyone deals with it so that sort of sense of doubt. Even though you’ve been you know, you may have been doing what you do for forever, the thought that sometimes that niggling little person in the back of your head saying, you know, who you think you are. You know, and sort of eating away at your confidence. Looks are definitely deceiving because we look at people that we see on social media, like the perfectly curated Instagram feed and think or that person’s got it so together when in reality, just about everyone, well, everyone has a burden to carry.

Natascha Moy: Absolutely. I would say Instagram is a liar. And I’ve said that many times to people. Instagram’s a liar. They go “oh your life looks so amazing.” I go “Instagram’s a liar” because I can guarantee you not every photograph that I put up – I’ve taken 17. I’ve retouched. They all look so beautiful and natural. And then it’s not the way that it’s, you know, I could have had the most horrific day that day but there’s no way I’m going to put out a picture of myself crying, no, you wouldn’t. It’s not about not being honest. It’s about people understanding that what they’re seeing is not real. And if they’re going understand that it’s not real, then you won’t feel compelled to project that for yourself. You’ll just go, “I am who I am. I love who I am. I’m proud of who I am. And therefore, being myself is enough.”

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. And I do think that a lot of women particularly really struggle with that, struggle with thinking that they are enough and that and being proud of themselves, how they see it all the time. As someone, you know, a woman would have finished a project and be really beating themselves up because they didn’t make as much profit as someone else. So, you know, what will their family think of them? You know that this is an intense sort of weight on their shoulders that they need to prove themselves to their families and to their kids. And I guess to their nice size. and that can be quite a burden.

Natascha Moy: Women are their own best friends and also their own worst enemies. You know, I’ve seen a lot of women be very cruel to other women, very unsupportive. I’ve seen a lot of insecure women try and shred women to pieces. And the average woman out there is actually just trying to do the best she can. I always say everybody is on their own journey. We’re all moving in one direction. Every now and again, we might bump into one another, and that’s a beautiful thing. But ideally, that other person is experiencing something totally different from you every single day. And it really is about trying to step back and be kind. And it’s hard, it’s really hard. But to try and deal with everything with a certain amount of love. And that sounds kind of hurry gurry and a little bit ridiculous. But I do think that gratitude journey can help women transform if you say what you’re grateful for. At the end of yoga, which I do quite a lot of, I always thank my body. I was thanking my body that it’s carried me through that yoga experience, that it’s strong. And I’m very grateful for the fact that I have that. And I think gratitude is, we just, women are so hard on themselves, so hard.

Bernadette Janson: Exactly. And I think we’re going to end on that pearl of wisdom that you have shared. And I just want to say, I’m actually incredibly grateful for the day that our paths have crossed. Because you bring a real richness to a relationship and a conversation. I want to thank you for that, Natascha.

Natascha Moy: It’s an absolute pleasure. It’s actually been such a lovely experience seeing you succeeding and, on your podcast, succeeding. Being on your podcast is such a privilege. I feel really, really proud today to actually be able to sit here and be the person being interviewed. And I hope that some of your guests maybe learn a little bit about, you know, the way forward and that gratitude journey.

Bernadette Janson: Yes, exactly. Well, thank you beautiful!

Natascha Moy: Thank you.

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